Participants: Bobby, Joe, Shane, Bryan, Jon, Drew, Sean
Initiator: Bobby
Bobby
The Sea Inside probably deserves our applause for two
reasons. First, it made Hartman read and
actually pay attention to a movie and, mostly, it is a fantastic film. This film hit my radar after checking out
what else Javier Bardem has done besides No Country for Old Men and Skyfall. I
really enjoyed Vicky Cristina Barcelona, as well. I narrowed it down to Biutiful and The Sea
Inside, and the latter seemed more interesting at the moment.
The battle of a quadriplegic trying to win his right to die,
holding the view that life is a right and not an obligation, is a difficult
journey to present. This is the kind of
situation that often makes us examine our own thoughts on such a subject. What would I do if it was me? What would I do
and say if it was somebody I loved? One
of the major things I liked about this movie is that it was about the person,
Ramon Sampedro, more than the topic of euthanasia. It didn't try to aggressively sway us in
either direction, but maintained a focus on who he was, what he thought, and
how he responded to those around him with different opinions on his life and
choice to die.
The focus on Ramon's conversations, fantasies and flashbacks
really kept us tuned into his story and why he has made his decision. The
scenes of him flying out the window and over the landscape are beautifully
shot. They mean so much to the character, especially the time when he doesn't
get out the window and we see the land as if we're trapped, as is his
reality. My other favorite scene was
when the quadriplegic priest came to visit and they argued their positions via
the boy running up and down the stairs, and by shouting toward each other. Arguing over rhetoric with rhetoric and
Manuela having the final word as the priest leaves.
I thought all the relationships were portrayed well and
provided a balance throughout the film. Ramon's father having few lines, but
standing out when he confesses that 'there's only one thing worse than the
death of a son... that he wants to die."
His brother is the most outspoken against Ramon's wishes, conflicting
with his wife who's taken up the day to day care for Ramon and seems to have
come to accept that it's Ramon's choice to make. Her speaking out to the priest
was a big moment. Javier, his nephew,
doesn't quite understand everything... even when Ramon spells it out in a poem
dedicated to him. He's the son he never
had, but definitely loved as one. Then there are the two women in his life,
Julia and Rosa. One coming to represent
him and help him die while other shows up to convince him to live. The conversations, the cigarettes, the
kiss, and the overall dynamics were
vital to Ramon and well written and acted. We see each of them change their
positions and Rosa giving her friend, who she loves, what he's long awaited
even though he doesn't seem to reciprocate
the same feelings. All of these
people played such important roles to Ramon and showed us all both sides of his
battle. It turns out that years after
Ramon's death the real Rosa (Ramona) openly spoke about it, confessing her part
since the statute of limitations had run out for their supposed crimes.
The acting was good overall and superb for Bardem. He
received all sorts of accolades for his performance and they were all deserved.
The way he delivers his lines are
convincing and real. His facial expressions are on point, showing Ramon's wide
range of emotion throughout his journey.
In what had to be a very demanding role to take on, Bardem was pretty
much flawless. At first, Lola Dueñas
sort of bothered me as Rosa, but that's just who her character was. She grew on me, just as she did with Ramon. I was pleased with the cast overall, not
knowing any of the others, they all fit and played their parts well.
The Sea Inside notches an A grade from me. I walked away from it with a lot on my mind,
a handful of laughs, and an eye lined with a tear or two. Bardem's performance, the story, and the
scenes that stood out for me made this a great movie experience for me. I hope you all were able to suffer through
the subtitles enough to enjoy it, as well!
First of all, it would be Bobby that chose not only a "I have a sad" movie, but also one with subtitles. I just watched Amelie a month ago, a French movie with subtitles. I highly recommend it. Listening to French is actually nice to here. Because I pick a few words of Spanish here and there, I actually didn't mind so much. Oh, and you can check out our reviews of Amelie over here: http://notchurchmusic.blogspot.com/2014/03/amelie.html Feel free to comment.
ReplyDeleteIf this movie is supposed to be persuasive, then it fails miserably. I don't see it changing anyone's mind. But I agree that it probably isn't. I think it is indeed -mostly- about a man. However, I still see some shades at attempted persuasion.
To the movie. First of all, you are correct. Bardem is fantastic. He comes off as stubborn, slightly self-important, and yet shows a sliver of benevolence. Physically, this is a hard role and I felt that he was convincing there as well. For the most part, I think everyone did a good job. His brother, who I wish we could have heard more from, was excellent as well. The woman who plays Rosa simply can't keep up with Bardem, though her character is also just a weak person, so maybe that was intentional.
The flying scenes and cut-aways could have been incredibly cheap, but I think they did well with them. When he fantasizes, it's graceful, yet still intense. When he was a nightmare, that intensity remains, but the ride is a violent one. I don't particularly buy the full dream sequence, though, as dreams seem to be a bit more nonsensical. Perhaps The Sopranos has ruined me for all dream sequences forever.
I guess I'm having a problem finding someone or something to root for or against. The judges are such a minor part and I actually understand their POV (There are rules, damnit. You don't get to ignore the ones you want unless you can afford it.) The brother isn't a true antagonist either. He was pretty one-sided and wasted. I can't root against him because I don't even know what he stands for. The holy man reminds me too much of a straw man and I find the characterization of him unpersuasive. I really doubt that conversation was so one-sided intellectually.
So back to the protagonist. While I buy Bardem's acting, I can't remotely empathize with him. I find my sympathies are more in line with Javi or Manuela. Ramon is a bit of self-righteous, judgmental jerk, even though he claims not to be. He has a lot around him. He has love and people caring for him. His world is so centered on his self-loathing that can't be bothered to understand that those around him don't find his life a chore, but they love him. He's never really confronted on this and I think the movie could have hashed it out. Instead, they gloss over it, never focusing on a flaw that would have made him interesting or relate-able. Perhaps it's my failure to understand depression since I've never been through nor am I likely pre-disposed to it, but he also never struck me as truly depressed. Just someone who wouldn't admit his physical limitations so instead of admitting them, he declares he wants to die because fuck you world, you can't tell him what to do. If he really wanted to die, why do it so publicly? His final act of suicide via the emotional manipulation of a desperate woman is hardly courageous or brave. It was really more of a wimper. I just think these things could have been covered.
FInally, I wanted to mention that I think the movie did a really fine job of adding the light-hearted. Had those not been in there, I probably would have compared this movie to Girls and just Wiki'd the dude instead.
Before writing, I was at a B+, but I think I just talked myself down to a B.
I have zero problem with foreign movies and subtitles. I’ve always been a night owl, and in a house with seven other people in it, that meant low-volume TV with the sound low and the captions on. I’ve been used to it since my teens, and frankly prefer it when they’re available. That said, The Sea Inside just didn’t grab me at all. I think it exists more as a debate than a narrative. I didn’t dislike it, but I have no strong feelings about it. It’s basically a potato with no butter or seasoning, nourishing but bland.
ReplyDeleteFirst, what’s good. Javier Bardem is strong throughout, even if his character is essentially the same beginning to end. He gives a good portrayal of an old man’s gentle wisdom, and there’s a lot of warmth around his eyes. He’s very much a cool older uncle who can’t move. He puts a handful of nice touches on the character. I really liked the way his feet warily tap on the floor before he flies out the window, and his exasperation with the quadriplegic priest. Bardem’s by far the best part here.
Some of the other characterizations were solid. The clingy single mother Rosa is just a pleaser, first thinking that she has some kind of secret knowledge that will make Ramon change his mind, and then molding her actions around Ramon’s thinking. I also liked the writing around the priest character, who I though sounds very much like a high-handed douche who has never been challenged in his life, or an arrogant Catholic priest.
Into the bad. The other characterizations were one-note, at best. The family was well-portrayed but they were only each one thing. The worst offender is the dad, who though senile, is of course coherent enough to give one piece of wisdom. Today in movie clichés: if a character is introduced as mentally not-all-there, there is a 100% chance of him or her getting something important to say in a moment of clarity. This is all a side effect of subpar writing that I felt was all over the film. So many lines have too much on the end, like “Tell me about that day, that day that changed your life.” What other day could the speaker of this line be talking about in the context of getting to know Ramon? I hate it when movies insult my intelligence like this. The score is totally generic, spiking scenes that should already be emotional with unnecessary soft music.
Lastly, I feel like the film completely missed an opportunity to really take advantage of sense memory. I’m going to struggle to get this out, but anytime Ramon was dreaming or reminiscing, there should have been a strong sense of what those moments literally felt like for the viewer. One of the best examples of this kind of filmmaking is in Kill Bill, when The Bride first pulls herself out of the grave. The huge breath she takes in the night air is so evocative, I can imagine everything about that moment. What the air tastes like, its temperature, the feel of the cool air on my skin. In a story about a quadriplegic with an active imagination, those kind of moments should have been all over. I have no idea how a director would create such a moment, but I’ve seen enough of them to know it’s possible. This director is as clueless as I am in that regard.
ReplyDeleteOn the topic of euthanasia, the film gets points for not tipping its hand how it feels. I can’t really place where The Sea Inside stands on it. I think logically, it agrees with Ramon, especially based on the confrontation with the priest. However, on an emotional level, it sides with the family who clearly don’t want Ramon to die. There are some interesting questions raised, especially the question of how much your life belongs to you and how much of it belongs to people who love you. I do think again the film misses an opportunity here to let the emotional argument penetrate Ramon’s decision process, as he is single-minded throughout. If he was more uncertain, it would have been a better movie. Knowing nothing about the real life events, I was never in doubt he would be dead from suicide by the end.
This write-up has really been a struggle. I feel very blasé about this movie, moreso than something like Electoral Dysfunction which got a lower grade. It hasn’t really stuck with me since I saw it. I had to watch it in two portions, lest I fall asleep halfway through. I think the complete lack of conflict is partly to blame for this, though I did perk up when Ramon runs into legal troubles. Some good performances, a minor ethical takeaway, and one strong emotional moment at the end between Ramon and his nephew. Let’s call it a C.
I was hesitating to announce my boredom because I felt embarrassed, but I'm with you. I think you really nailed some of the aspects I forgot to talk about and I largely agree with you. However, I can't drag this all the way down to a C because there is a redeeming quality here in Bardem's performance. I really believed he was that dude and I don't want to take away from his performance just because the story had some issues. A C, to me, says there is nothing remarkable. I'm revising down to a B-, though.
DeleteI apologize for not getting this watched during my slotted time. The tourney trumped it. I watched it last night and I have to agree with what you all mentioned. There are some smaller points I would like to make.
ReplyDeleteFirst is that Javier Bardem is Bobby's favorite actor. I am convinced of this. If there was a movie with Bardem experiencing diarrhea, Bobby would want to see it! When he mentioned this movie to me at the fantasy draft, I thought it had to include him. Do not get me wrong, Bardem is a great actor. He is top notch but I was not surprised to see Bobby's pick on a movie featuring Javier Bardem.
Second, The Sea Inside did a great job of showing the constant struggle of assisted suicide and the right to die issue. Like Jon said, the film exemplified the family's emotion of Ramon's desire to die. They love him and that is shown throughout the movie but when he discusses his wish to die, the family responds negatively. It could not have captured the emotion better.
For Ramon, it equally displayed his side. You could see how helpless Ramon felt from beginning to end. He learned to live a different life and was clearly unhappy with it. It was as though he felt cheated out of death. We do not know who saved him from his diving accident but Ramon probably cursed him every day since. Because he was cheated and could not return to his old way of living, he felt burdensome to his family. His persistent stance on this issue is a testament to that feeling.
Third, The Sea Inside captures the debate on this issue. If it was not a foreign film with subtitles, I would show it in my class. The conflict that exists within the issue could not be brought to life in a better way - unless it was done in English.
I disagree with some statements Jon made - anyone surprised? - but all in all this was a good movie. It was not difficult for me to connect with Ramon, Ramon's family, Julia, and Rosa. If it was, then that is on the viewer.
I am not big on foreign films mainly because I want to watch a movie, not read one. But to the film's credit, this was not bad to follow. Good acting, compelling story, foreign film equates to a high grade. Grade: B
"It was not difficult for me to connect with Ramon, Ramon's family, Julia, and Rosa. If it was, then that is on the viewer."
DeleteI have to disagree here, Drew.
Starting with Ramon, I don't find him relatable. Part of it is possibly my wiring: (1) I have no interest in dying and (2) I don't think I'm as narcissistic as his character.
(1) Since wanting to die is something that is against every fiber of our being, so much so that we make silly laws against taking your own life, I needed his character to get me to understand that. What I got was a guy who is loved, funny and talented. Was he tortured that he couldn't go swimming? Yeah. OK. So my thought is that he's chronically depressed. But they don't really show that.
(2) Ramon is so obsessed that life has changed (get in line, buddy) that he doesn't appreciate things around him. I just don't think we're on this earth to just hang out in the sea, doing whatever we want. Learning to appreciate people and things around you a sign of maturity to me. Ramon just refuses to do so. I didn't connect because I don't really understand his motivations and I don't think his motivations were projected at all.
I don't think this is on the viewer. I think it's on the movie. Sure, some people are better wired to inherently understand this character, but I don't think most of us are.
For the family, we have no idea why his brother wants him to live so badly. None. Is it religious? Is it spite? A sense of duty to his brother? Father? Mother? I don't know. He's just a heel.
I think we understand the women decently, at least. The lawyer is probably the most hashed out character. Rosa is probably slightly behind. But what does it say about a movie that we are better able to understand the motivations of supporting characters over the main character?
I thought Ramon's motivations were pretty simple and straight forward. He didn't feel a life in his condition was a life worth living. He felt and saw no dignity in his so called life. I don't think most people are meant to fully understand it, though. Isn't that part of the intrigue. Somebody who sees things so differently than us, even though he seems to be a very likable and relatable person otherwise. He wants to die... i guess I never needed more than that, although I felt we did get some as he explained himself a little bit when pushed.
DeleteBut no, I can totally see most viewers not connecting with him...i don't think the movie tried to make that happen though. It wanted you involved in his story, but didn't want try and convince you to side with him. But I do think it's an individual experience as to how much you do identify with his situation.
I feel like a lot of the reasoning Jon, with some agreement from Shane, has for lowering his grade are reasons I really enjoyed it. Did you want to them Hollywood bastardize all of the characters? In all honestly, I think most people are pretty one-noted, failing to be complex or interesting in any sense. The Sea Inside kept the people simple. I felt that this held the realism in tact and made it easier to sink into the story. I don't understand the need/desire for a bunch of dynamic characters in a story about a solitary man.
ReplyDeleteWhile I get what Jon is saying about sense memory, it's not something I know much about. Sure, we've seen it in other movies, as you've cited Kill Bill... but this is a completely different kind of story. We have to remember this is more than two decades since Ramon's accident. I have no idea how his sense memory would react to aging, especially with his mental focus spent on a desire to die.
I think the time gone by also answers for Shane's desire to see more conflict against his opinion from his family. After 25 or so years of him holding on to this idea of death, and not being able to die, his family seems to have fallen into a routine around him. They may not agree with him, but so far neither have the courts so him dying didn't seem likely... it became normal for them. It's like in The Shawshank Redemption, how Brooks becomes institutionalized. It becomes his norm. Even from personal experience, when my dad was first diagnosed with stage four cancer and given only about 6 months to live... there was panic and everything was different. But.... as he was doing well a year later and living his, relatively, normal life... it became pretty normal for us as well. Not that the stress, or conflict, of these types if situations ever goes away... we just become sort of comfortable with how things are. And I think that's actually part of the tragedy of it all. People let their guard down, and then it's even worse when it all comes back around. When Brooks is released from prison, he wasn't ready. When my dad's condition got worse in his final month, we weren't emotional ready. It's hard to say that anybody who cares could be truly prepared in any of those situations.
We didn't get to see it, but there was surely anger and grief from the family. Even though they knew what he wanted, and that it was possible... it became a faded reality replaced by their routine. I think it may have helped to film to show a bit more of it, or at least a backlash against Rosa...but it wasn't important to the focus of the movie.
I will agree, that it was slow paced and there were moments that tested your attention lent themselves to boredom. After thinking about it more and reading through all of your guys' comments, I'd probably be more comfortable with an A-, borderline A...instead of a straight A grade. Still, I think it was a fantastic film in general.
And for Drew... I've only seen three movies from Bardem before The Sea Inside (No Country for Old Men, Skyfall, and Vicky Cristina Barcelona). He's not at all my favorite actor, but i do think he's an absolutely brilliant one. Now, if we're gonna watch somebody experiencing... it'd probably need to be Daniel Day Lewis. He'd spend months or years researching and becoming the role. Or Johnny Depp, cause he may wear a funny hat.
I think you have a good point about remembering what the times were like at that period. However, I would think that this would be something that the film would demonstrate considering it was made in 2004.
DeleteI guess I don't need every character to be dynamic, and maybe we're spoiled because that's what we get in this golden age of television, but I would like to see a bit more. For now, his brother is just some angry man that lives with Ramon.
I think we agree that characters were one-dimensional. In my estimation, additional flaws include boring direction and a static plot. Each of those on their own don't necessarily doom a movie, but in combination, they make the flaws stick out that much more. I can be distracted from one-note characters if the story is moving along quickly, and I can overlook workman directing if I'm interested in the characters. I think where The Sea Inside lost me is that because it has all these issues with momentum and a lack of surprise, it gets boring.
DeleteBobby, you talk about how over the course of Ramon's time being taken care of by his family, their problems with his wishes would either be internalized or forgotten. This is the new normal, so we may as well get on with it. I'll buy that as something people do, but that doesn't make it compelling to watch. This is like the opposite of the usual problems I have with biopics, where the movie either embellishes the subject's life (Braveheart) or reduces it to a simpler narrative (A Beautiful Mind). The Sea Inside feels accurate (not sure if it is or not), but accuracy doesn't have to translate into interest. If Ramon's actual story was so straightforward, maybe it needed a little spicing up. Flash back to the moment he made up his mind to die, or a moment where he wavered. He's such a lead character (even in scenes he's not in, people are talking about him), that there has to be some kind of conflict within him. The conflict around him isn't fleshed out enough to sustain a 130 minute movie.
A very similar type of movie to this one is The Diving Bell and the Butterfly, about a French man who has a stroke, which results in locked-in syndrome. It also deals with the despair of having such a condition and having to recalibrate your life to this new limiting state. I preferred it to The Sea Inside because it is filmed much more imaginatively. It tracks the internal monologue of the subject from suicidal despair into something else, and is partly filmed in a fuzzy first-person perspective to mimic what it would be like to be locked-in. It really gets inside the subject's head, while The Sea Inside holds Ramon at arms length. I understood him logically, but because the filmmaking was largely boring, it killed the sympathy I should've had for him.
And done. I'm in this Club to win it.
ReplyDeleteI started Sea Inside back in May and am just now wrapping it up, I fell asleep about seven times watching it. Reading at night just isn't my thing. I'm not a subtitles fan because the viewer can't watch what the director intended during each scene.
I thought the acting was fine, but none of the scenes really got to me until Ramon's brother got upset. I would have expected that kind of emotion through the whole show.
I'll echo the thought that the movie never took a stance and I appreciated that. Overall, much too slow for my liking, C, maybe C+
Apologies for the delay.